tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2422112066790651313.post2373552037211579422..comments2024-03-14T08:34:34.769+00:00Comments on litrefs: Comments about poetry publishingTim Lovehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00578925224900533603noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2422112066790651313.post-74118046470258535692017-03-15T10:53:13.316+00:002017-03-15T10:53:13.316+00:00nice blognice bloglizahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035184100892779826noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2422112066790651313.post-72096373578115862202010-08-28T13:01:43.337+01:002010-08-28T13:01:43.337+01:00I suspect you may be a bit unnecessarily bleak - I...<i>I suspect you may be a bit unnecessarily bleak</i> - I've just returned from a WWW-less break in Greece (Mycenae, etc). I took the latest issue of The Dark Horse with me. John Lucas has an 8 page article on "Identity Parade" in there. It's not bleak, but I think the recent wave of anthos has provoked some grumpy [over-]reactions. <br /><br /><i>You'd pay five times the price of a book to get into a Premier League football match</i> - you could even buy a team (I'm a Pompey fan trying to get out of the habit of listening for Premier League results and trips to Wembley)<br /><br /><i>It isn't poetry alone that suffers from low exposure and sales</i> - I can't name a living composer of serious music ("serious" can't be the right word, but I'm stuck even there)<br /><br /><i>Whose esteem? How is it bestowed? ... I have dealt with esteem in visual art on my own blog at times. I would like to add yours to my own blog links</i> - I'm interested in how technology transfer affects the patterns of esteem. http://www2.eng.cam.ac.uk/~tpl/texts/WWWstandards.html is an article from "Acumen" but Chris Hamilton-Emery is mapping the terrain and pathways (blog links being one of them of course, so thanks) far more thoroughly.Tim Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578925224900533603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2422112066790651313.post-26228827513409159912010-08-28T09:00:23.895+01:002010-08-28T09:00:23.895+01:00I suspect you may be a bit unnecessarily bleak, Ti...I suspect you may be a bit unnecessarily bleak, Tim. The golden ages of poetry readership generally produced a fair amount of dross (think of the Georgian Anthologies) etc. The average new novel sells in hundreds not in thousands. You could of course spend the cost of a poetry book on a DVD or a novel (the novels you name are already popular established classics, not first novels - try substituting a new novel by an unknown novelist), but it isn't in fact expensive. You'd pay five times the price of a book to get into a Premier League football match and three times as much for a lower league.<br /><br />It isn't poetry alone that suffers from low exposure and sales, most of what we call literature does. The books that sell are not primarily literary. So your issue is with the low level support for literature (what Hungarians call szépirodalom, which means roughly what Fine Art means in relation to art, but applied to literature).<br /><br />I receive about two announcements per week for new publishers and new magazines for poetry - and do in fact contribute when I can. That suggests energy and hope. It's technology that makes this possible.<br /><br />In any case, I suspect we are talking about two different things. One is the culture of commerce, the other is the culture of esteem. It is hard to 'quarrel' with the first, but the second is continually up for debate. Whose esteem? How is it bestowed? etc. The T S Eliot Prize readings pack out the Queen Elizabeth Hall; Aldeburgh is fully booked. Books sell at these events. That is partly because they have esteem.<br /><br />The subject of esteem is too big for a comment box. I have dealt with esteem in visual art on my own blog at times. I would like to add yours to my own blog links (in fact have done so) because I admire the intelligence, seriousness and exhaustive reading I find here.George Shttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08889600788146987089noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2422112066790651313.post-78782750462595284372010-08-13T07:37:20.681+01:002010-08-13T07:37:20.681+01:00Many good points here - I can't take much cred...<i>Many good points here</i> - I can't take much credit - the bits that aren't quotes were provoked by discussion elsewhere by people who know and care more about these matters. <br /><i>The answer? Like I said I have no idea. I do my bit ... how can I fly the flag for something I just don’t get?</i> - Ditto. All I can say is that (1) over the last few months I've become less keen on the idea of grant money going towards poetry book publication (2) the intelligent lay-person (especially readers of literary novels) could be a source of poetry readership but they need more help than they're currently getting. Just effusing isn't enough. Some poets don't seem to worry (or know?) that intelligent, artistic readers can be so utterly baffled by their poetry. I once suggested that someone should hold a lunchtime seminar in a Univ science dept, inviting people to bring along examples of poetry they just don't get. At least then a dialog would be opened. I'm not suggesting that the person should try to defend all the samples, but at least they should try to explain (sociologically if not artistically) why, say, WCW's red wheelbarrow is so often anthologized.Tim Lovehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00578925224900533603noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2422112066790651313.post-61865954930221034862010-08-12T09:01:53.167+01:002010-08-12T09:01:53.167+01:00Many good points here. The problem I find is that ...Many good points here. The problem I find is that it’s like global warming: I’d love to put an end to it but all I can do is my bit – put out the recycling, don’t drive a car – and hope that others do their bit too. I’ve just published a book of poetry. I’ve been writing poetry for almost forty years and this is my first full collection. I charge £5.99 including postage and I still make a small profit on each book. My wife thinks that people will think there’s something wrong with the book because it’s so cheap. Far from it, it contains some of my best work, but people still aren’t falling over themselves to buy it. Even the people who have read the very positive reviews and say nice things in the comments still aren’t buying it. And if they didn’t buy it there and then what’s the odds they’ll remember it later? I certainly don’t.<br /><br />I think much of the problem with poetry is the fault of poets who have had a chip on their shoulders. The same happened with art and music, a general . . . contempt probably isn’t too strong a word for it . . . for their audiences. Things are turned the corner musically. Yes, old stalwarts like Boulez and Stockhausen are hanging on in there but there has been a general return to tonality, music with actual tunes. But what about poetry? People are still under the approach poetry warily assuming that they’re not going to get it and probably be made to feel stupid for not getting it. That’s how I feel.<br /><br />Then there is the explosion of Internet poetry. Poetry is hugely popular. All I have to do is look at the stats on my site and it’s the poetry articles that get the big hits. So people are interested and people are writing what they think is poetry but are they? I see the blind leading the blind all over the place. It’s a direct reaction to . . . let’s just call it <i>hard</i> poetry. People want transparent poetry and they’ve been willing to sacrifice pretty much everything to get it although there are a few who just think that if they dump raw emotions on a page and call it poetry then it is poetry.<br /><br />The answer? Like I said I have no idea. I do my bit. I write articles talking about how I write, remind people about poetic techniques but, and I freely admit this, I’m not that bright either. There is a huge amount of poetry that is unknown to me and that puts me in a very difficult position: how can I fly the flag for something I just don’t get?<br /><br>Jim Murdochhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12786388638146471193noreply@blogger.com